Richard Gill discusses luck, persistence – and why price compression hurts inventors

Richard, welcome back! We last spoke with you when you were at PlayMonster. We’ll link to that article here because you give your origin story so beautifully! What have you been doing since you left?
I came back to work part time with my wife Catherine at McGill Associates. So back into the consulting, sales and marketing, primarily internationally to pitching and placing products, working for inventors, working for a few corporate clients as well. And you know, I’ve now been around for so long that people who were junior product managers when they started are now managing directors and CEOs!

On the bright side, I imagine that helps galvanise your reputation?
Well, yes – I have built a level of trust in the industry. That does tend to mean that – when I bring something to people and say, “I think this is a really good toy or game”, I do at least get the meeting. Weather things progress after that is another matter. Ha! But at least I get the meeting.

And refresh my memory: Catherine carried on doing that while you were at PlayMonster?
Yes, and she added a few overseas clients as well. So she’s representing some of them in the US. Martinex is one of them, then Format Games out of the UK.

Those are top of my mind right now because we’re placing products for them. We also work for a number of smaller US companies – negotiating contracts and royalties and selling finished goods on behalf of clients to various markets. So it’s a whole mix of whatever we can do for clients.

Perfect. Something I was going to follow up from our last interview was that you repeatedly said you were lucky… Lucky to be in the right place, lucky this, lucky that. Now, some people say we make our own luck… Others say luck is preparation meeting opportunity. How do you define luck?
Being in the right place at the right time mostly! But also being open, I think, to possibilities and change. I think there are a lot of people who don’t recognise opportunities when they come along, or aren’t prepared to be open to them when they come along. But I think my luck has been assisted by the fact that I was always open to opportunities and not closed minded to what a career looked like, what I was going to do and where I was going to be. That let me go off and explore lots of different things. So, you know, it is luck…

Well, that’s a lovely answer – although slightly modest!
Ha! Well… There’s some preparation, of course, and hopefully some personal skills that come into play that put you in that position. But at the end of the day, I was very, very fortunate to end up in the right place at the right time – for me.

Well, that might be the difference, Richard – I know some people that have been in the right place at the right time and lack the social skills to have the same luck! And other than luck, Richard, what qualities do you think you need to succeed in the toy industry today?
Oh, great question, Deej! Persistence is the word that came to mind. I also think you need access to a lot more capital to get into the industry than you did back in the day… I say that because the margins have become razor thin. I don’t know if I told you this before, but if Pictionary were to come to market today at this inflation rate, adjusted prices for when it launched back in 1985, it would retail for $73.

Oh no, you have not told me that! Ouch! That’s incredible. That’s fantastically awful!
Right? We’ve had such price compression in our industry for so long that the retailers have forced us into trying to come up with cheap products… As in inexpensive products for them. But they have to be new and appealing – and then we get criticised because we’re not very innovative, and we don’t come up with a lot of revolutionary things! Because for two bucks there’s only so much you can do…

You’re right, you’re right! You credit me with a great question… I’ll tell you what, though: that’s a great answer…
Imagine the marketing budget you could have if a party game retailed for 75 bucks! But yes – I do feel anybody starting out in the industry today has to be well funded because of the terms of credit you have to give retailers, wholesalers – even factories. It’s just become so much tighter. I do still in people with a great idea sticking with it for the long haul but it’s tough. And on the toy side these days – with all the regulations, safety requirements and other testing – it’s very difficult for a new company to break in…

Although would it be fair to say some games companies have found their way with the right ideas and the right strategies at the right time?
Yes – and games is an easier access point. If you’re going to try and break into the traditional market, I guess I’d recommend games over toys. Just because the cost of entry is easier.

Alright. Well, now, I don’t want to alarm you, Richard, but I’m about to use the word ‘veteran’…
Ha! I’m getting used to it!

It’s like a trigger warning! In March 2025, you’ll have been in the industry for forty years. As an industry veteran, what are the most impactful changes you’ve seen over that time?
Wow! Fewer specialised retailers, the growth of the internet and accessibility for everybody. And that price compression we touched on… That’s beginning to bug me a bit because I’m hearing again and again how people are paying through the nose for containers, for example, and they’re expected to absorb it because retailers are just not open to creating a retail environment that’s good for our industry.

No, I hear that… And I think there was a time when high-street retailers were doing quite well on that basis – but now Covid and the internet have just caned some of them to the extent that they’re still doing it – and barely surviving.
Another aspect is the globalisation of the industry. When I started, it was very local. We could move things around the world or even just around America on a regional basis. I’ll use Pictionary as an example… Pictionary started in Seattle.

It went down the west coast and it jumped over to Chicago. It finally got to New York – and then the rest of the country knew about it.

How long did that take, Richard?
Oh, it was out for a year or more and nobody on the east coast had got a clue what it was. So then, for me, marketing and selling around the world meant most of my time was spent taking marketing concepts, ideas and successes from one market to another because there was little or no communication.
Germany did its thing, Sweden did its thing, Japan did its thing…

Now, with the globalisation, there’s a lot more sharing of ideas – and implementation of ideas as well for that matter. But tie that to my price compression issue and the difficulty the inventing community faces in having money to create things… The prices get tighter and tighter. You know, we did the game Drone Home at PlayMonster – did you see Drone Home?

See it?! I saw it, I LOVED it, I recommended it, I gifted it to people… That is a great game!
Aww, I’m glad you liked that! Thank you for the effort. We all absolutely loved it from the moment we saw it. But the instant question was, “How much can we make it for?” Originally, it was going to be a $30 item. By the time we were done pitching it to the large retailers in the US, it had to be a $20 item. And, you know, we stripped the guts out of it. We did everything we could do. We cut margins, we had to cut the marketing budget. It was cut, cut, cut… All these compromises to such a great idea.

That’s a painful thing to hear. For anyone reading that doesn’t know Drone Home, the idea is that four of you sit around an X-shaped board. Each of you uses a little lever to start shooting your four thimble-sized, coloured aliens towards a capsule in the middle of the X…
Right!

As soon as one of you gets an alien to land in the capsule, it starts whirring away – because the capsule is actually a drone! The drone takes off and flies away with the alien.
That game is so original, so great. I still think there’s huge possibilities for it if somebody would just accept that the right price for a mass market game like that could be $30 or $35. But nobody will even look at a $30 mass-market game right now in this country.

Well… Now I’ll tell you a Drone Home story, Richard; one that makes my blood boil! Billy Langsworthy and I were on the PlayMonster stand in New York. Adam Hocherman asks us if we’ve seen Don Ullman’s game – Drone Home. We make our way to see a chap putting his heart and soul into every demonstration.
And it’s a great game to see demonstrated, isn’t it? People are so excited!

Exactly right. People were crowding around it; babbling with excitement as they play – then the drone takes off. My days! Grown men and women whooping and cheering like children. It is, in the words of Shakespeare, “a hit, a very palpable hit.”
Ha!

At this point, I see a group of buyers arrive from a large American retailer. I won’t name names… So I step slightly to one side and gesture towards the game, as if to say, “Here – take a look!” But they don’t bother. The fella right next to me wrinkles his nose, gives a little chin shrug, and then – almost as one entity – the group moves on.
Didn’t even look at it?

Didn’t even look at it! And I said to Billy, “What the hell are they doing? How can they POSSIBLY see that kind of excitement on a stand and not want to know more?!”
But they’re “No, no, no… We’re alright.”?

Right! Barely took the time to glance at it. Oh, I was FUMING! Still am! After everything you, Don, the team and PlayMonster went through to create that product – these people curl their lips and turn their backs. I wanted to grab them! “You! Come and PLAY the game. Just look at it!”
Ha! Well, I’m with you! It’s definitely one of the more innovative things I’ve seen. It just got killed and killed and killed on price.

Drives me crazy. Alright! Richard, we might need to start wrapping things up. My final question, though, is this: what’s the one thing I could’ve asked you today that I didn’t?
Ha! A typical Deej question! Maybe, “What part of your career did you enjoy most without realising how much you enjoyed it?”

Oh, wow! Great question! I love that… What’s the answer?
I had a foray into the TV world. And yes, at the time, I didn’t realise how much I enjoyed it – and I let it pass me by.

This would be the Pictionary TV show?
Right – with Alan Thicke. We made 192 episodes, shooting 10 episodes a weekend. We’d take over one of the sets of CBS, convert it to Pictionary, shoot five shows on the Saturday and five more on the Sunday… Then break it all down again Sunday night to start the editing on the Monday.

Wow!
Once it got up and running, Rob Angel, Terry Langston and I more or less took it in turns and one, two or – on occasion – all three of us would fly out Thursday night and go into a preproduction meeting on the Friday. We’d then be at the studio all day Saturday, all day Sunday. We got to meet a whole host of B and C celebrities. Most of whom were absolutely delightful, some less so – they thought they were A’s…

Maybe they were. Depends what the A stands for…
Ha!

Ha! And that’s an opportunity you didn’t pursue further?
Yes, I wish I’d stayed a bit more focused on it. I met a great team of people on the production side, and there were opportunities to work on other game shows that – given where we were with Pictionary at the time – I wasn’t able to pursue. But I think I could’ve enjoyed that world. I think it would have suited me.

Great answer. Well, maybe when they need someone to produce Drone Home: The Show you’ll leave this industry…
Ha! Well, as I’ve told you many times before, this industry has been amazing to me over my life, through all the ups and downs. And I can’t complain about the people; they’ve been so good and so kind to me. Somewhat of a serious note to finish on, but I’m so lucky I fell into it.

The way I see it, the industry’s lucky to have you! You’re one of those really good eggs and it comes across from a mile away.
That’s very nice of you to say that. And Deej, I always enjoy chatting with you guys. If I can ever help you, formally or informally, you’ve only got to pick up the phone.

That’s a lovely thing to say. Thank you, my friend – and vice versa. Mojo is at your service, of course, anytime you need us. Always a pleasure.

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