Robin Black on working at Waddingtons, winning the I.D.I.O.T Award… And leaving toys and games

Writing a book in Spain… Permanently back in Canada… Working in interior design. These are just three of the rumours that made you very hard to find, Robin!
Ha! None of those are true – but in a way, Deej, I’m quite pleased I was hard to find. I like to keep a low profile!

Well, you’re doing a very good job. I’ve turned into Columbo! But thank you, then – all the more – for making time to talk, I’m so pleased we’re here.
You’re welcome. Having read the other I.D.I.O.T. pieces, though, I’m not sure I’m up to their level! I was never an inventor; my story and career path are a little different.

Yes, and that makes it all the more interesting, Robin, because you won the I.D.I.O.T. Award for your work in Product Development and Acquisitions for Waddingtons Games…
Yes, from 1984 until 1988 I was with them in Canada. Then, in 1989, I came to the UK and worked for them here.

And then spent some time with Hasbro?
Oh, yes – very briefly after we got bought by Hasbro. I was actually commuting between Leeds and London doing a few days a week at Waddingtons and a few days a week in Stockley Park for Hasbro… Mostly because when that takeover happened, people didn’t know if they were supposed to continue with their work or not. In terms of my job, though, I still needed ideas… Plus, I wanted to be DOING something – so I said I’d hop down there and help up here.

And your previous career was in journalism, was it not? Tell me about that…
Yes, I got a master’s in journalism in Canada. I wanted to be in print journalism. I liked radio as well, but you had to focus on something, so I picked print. Anyway, while I was there, this very charismatic woman – Gwen Page – came and talked to our magazine class and said if any of you want a job, contact me.

And just so I have my bearings, Robin, roughly when was this?
Actually, it’s around the time of Watergate so most students suddenly wanted to be investigative reporters – which is ridiculous straight out of journalism school. But Gwen was the only female publisher in Canada. She had a little company called Page Publications and put out a number of trade publications which were not glamorous at all. Gwen was great though – a tough boss and a mentor. We’re still close friends to this day.

You say the publications weren’t glamorous. They were just work horses, presumably?
Yes – there was very little colour in them, for example. They looked a bit – dreary may be the right word. You think of trade magazines today – they’re way better looking. Gwen hired me, though, and I loved working on six titles: Crafts Canada, Canadian Inn Business… I did Luggage and Leather Goods News, Sports Trade Canada and Computing Canada. The title that became my big one was Toys & Games. I have to confess, though, Deej, that toys and games weren’t a particular passion of mine at that stage… That might not be what you want to hear!

No, I don’t mind hearing that… I’ve gone off them a bit myself since I started working for Mojo!
Ha! I don’t believe that! What I did love, though, were the people in the industry. I was also fascinated by manufacturing… The likes of Coleco and Parker Brothers and Irwin Toy, Canada Games, Playtoy, Ganz Brothers… I’d go to all these factories and get to know the top dogs there. They were just lovely, lovely people.

Anyway, at some point, I was doing an article in Toys & Games. And in those days, you had to write a letter on a typewriter and send it out to people in the post… So I wrote this plea for interviews, and one letter went out to a pretty lacklustre little company that Waddingtons had bought up in Brampton, Ontario. But this Waddingtons House of Games, as they were called, didn’t respond to the letter. And actually, I even picked up the phone a few times and called them, but I couldn’t get anywhere.

Frustrating!
It was! After that issue went out, though, I got this phone call from an irate British man. He’s giving me hell down the phone… I’m crying, and saying sorry, but I explained how I tried my utmost to get an interview – and nobody responded. He went silent, then suddenly said, “Well… Then we’re going to have to change that.” This man’s name was Beric Watson. He was one of the three brothers that ran Waddingtons.

Oh! Because Victor Watson was very well-known for running it…
That’s right. Victor was the chair of the whole group. Beric was Managing Director of the games company, and there was John Watson – I’m not quite sure of his role. He might’ve been commercial or operations. Because Waddingtons, when it started, was primarily known for very specialised packaging and printing. They did postage stamps, for example, packaging for Easter eggs, labels for whiskey bottles…

Anyway, Beric had been sent to shut down the Canadian company because it was doing so badly. He was there on his own; he lived in a condominium not far from me and we became absolute friends. He and his wife came to my wedding, and he got to know my parents. In any case, he actually turned the Canadian company around completely.

He didn’t shut it down? He turned it around?
He completely turned it around! Beric himself was quite eccentric, but he was a great salesman, and people loved him. He introduced an array of products… Some were great, some were bizarre. One which really helped our fortunes was Isaac Asimov’s Super Quiz…

Isaac Asimov, did you say? The science fiction writer?
Yes. It was a quiz game… This was when Trivial Pursuit was out – but nobody really knew about it. In fact, I became friends with those guys too because – as a journalist – I’d go around the Montreal Toy Fair and see them at the very back with this game. And they used to invite me to these game sessions in in Toronto where everyone would just sit out and play it. So even early on, it was an amazing game – but nobody knew about it.

Did you write about it, just out of interest?
I did! I wrote the first positive article about it – before it took off. That took a few years… It wasn’t an overnight success, and advertising wasn’t part of it. Instead, they sold it through a great store called Mr. Gameway’s Ark in Toronto – and they had a great marketing ploy. They used to run tiny ads saying, ‘Games 357 to 667 are ready for pick up at Mr. Gameway’s Ark.’ So they started to create the demand where there was no demand! It was brilliant – those guys were off the wall.

That’s brilliant! You also said some of Beric’s products were bizarre…
Yes. One of more bizarre ones was an all-white jigsaw puzzle, for example. That way, he didn’t have to pay for print. I mean, he was bonkers! But we became really great friends. One day, he told me that – since the company was doing well – he was heading back to England… And how would I like to be Head of Product Development? And I said, “Well, what the heck do I know about that?!”

Ha! A very reasonable question!
Right? But he thought that since I’d been writing about toys and games for years, something must have rubbed off. At that time, I was doing so many publications – some bimonthly, some monthly… But I was typing on a typewriter, doing the layout, doing the pictures, doing the interviews, doing the trade shows. It’s a lot of work, even for someone like me who’s a bit of a workaholic. I was feeling a bit burned out, so… Yes. That’s how I started to work for Waddingtons in Canada. I was there for about four years, and I’d come to the UK and to look at products here too.

What brought you over to England permanently, then?
At some point, the Head of Product Development left. I can’t remember her name, I’m afraid; I didn’t really know her. But when she went, it left them in the lurch – so they brought me over for three months. I had to live in the Swallow Hotel in Wakefield, Yorkshire, which was pretty soul destroying. I quickly learned that the English don’t really invite you over for dinner or anything so there were some very long evenings.

So now you’re working at Waddingtons, living in the Swallow Hotel in Yorkshire, soul eroding slowly…
And bored!

And bored! But when they offered you a chance to move to England and do that job full time, you said yes?
Ha! I did, because I was blown away. It came right out of the blue, but I already knew the company. I knew the people. I knew where they were based, and I liked the company very much. And to be honest, I was 33, and I didn’t have much going on in Canada. Waddingtons had bought another company out there, and I didn’t much like the match. They moved really far out, too. And I just thought: this is not fun anymore…

Which can be a very good sign that it’s time to move on!
Exactly. And while I was still thinking about it, Beric said to me, “Would you be disappointed if you didn’t do it, do you think?” And I said yes! So that was my answer… And I started on April 1st, 1989. Ha! I came out of the little house that I was then renting – it didn’t have a phone in it, and there were no mobile phones either… But I wanted to call my parents. So I had to go to a phone box in the street and deal with, you know, the coins in the slot…

The old ten-pence pieces endlessly dropping in! Ha!
Ha! And outside the box, it started to snow, and I thought: what have I done? I’m like, “Oh, come on!” Once I settled down, though, it was great. Because I LOVED the company. And we had some fantastic products… Cluedo and Monopoly, of course… We had Top Trumps and Subbuteo. Subbuteo, I confess, I never understood at all! I just left that to someone else… But we had a really solid stable of products. And around the time I was brought in for product development, Tony Norton came in to do marketing.

I think Billy might’ve interviewed Tony. It was a while ago, but I’ll put a link to that here…
Well, back then he had his marketing hat on, and I had a product-finding hat. We worked together on many things. One game I really liked was a Carterbench product, Bizzy Buzzy Bumbles.

Bizzy Buzzy Bumble bees!
Did you just sing the advert?!

I did! Although ‘sing’ gives me more credit than I deserve… I still remember that advert; someone obviously did something very right!
Well – ha! I used to oversee the shooting of the TV commercials. And I loved that game because it was so simple to communicate. Another one that you might remember was a product I helped Milton Bradley do in the US – Dingbats. In the US, it was called Whotzit.

Oh, wow. That was a huge hit!
Yes. I love that game because I’m a word person. And actually, I became very close friends with the inventor – Paul Sellers. I got to know the family… Sadly, he passed away in the pandemic, but I still keep in touch with his wife. He was a lovely man and very clever. He was still working up to almost the day he died, aged 89. He was an amazing guy, a cartoonist and a wordsmith. He drew me a Dingbat on a piece of card and wrote a message on the back. I brought that along to show you, look… It’s lovely.

That’s amazing!
They were happy days! It was a real delight to work on. In terms of people, I had an amazing team at Waddingtons. There was Simon Pilkington, Steve Parry, Phil Radcliffe… Alison Durham – who later married Simon Pilkington! Great people. They were such great product developers; I was really proud of that range and proud of them. They were an amazing team.

When you look back, Robin, was there one product above all others that made you feel proud?
I think the product I’m most proud of was POGS… Because nobody wanted to do it; I had to fight tooth and nail for it. To me, it seemed to be a good fit for Waddingtons because it was a very specialised printing process: it had embossing, it had holograms, it had brilliant artwork. I couldn’t believe no one was interested. I kept on about it though and – eventually – our managing director, Alan Thompson, more or less said, “I’ll tell you what. You can do some research. But if it fails, will you just stop with this?” I said okay – and it was just HUGE.

I’m curious: why did you have such faith in that?
To me, it was just a no brainer because when I saw products I liked, it was a purely personal thing. Often, it would resonate with me from when I was a kid. And in this case, it was because I used to love playing marbles. I thought POGS were just like flat marbles! And I thought: it’s quick to learn, there are not a lot of rules, it’s easy, it’s instant, and it’s a collectible. So I just couldn’t see why this wouldn’t be a great idea.

Even though everyone else looked at you a bit strangely!
Oh, they looked at me like I had three heads. It was so frustrating! Anyway, ultimately, they went with it, and we had mail bags every day. Literally, bags and bags of mail. We never had that at Waddingtons – not ever. But there’d be four big mail bags coming in every day; kids writing letters about POGS, drawing pictures of their favourites and sharing their experiences. It was amazing. I was actually quite teary when I walked in and someone said, “You have to see this Robin, look… This is POG post.” I was very, very proud of that. The only downside was that POGS became so big that everyone had to start working on it!

Ha! But that’s a nice problem to have…
Yes. And a man called Andrew Palmer was my best ally on it once we said we were going to do it. He pulled out all the stops and really got into it. I think Simon was probably working on it too. Well – as I say, everyone was because we had to keep feeding them. But all the people that worked with me were amazing.

What a story! No surprise, then, Robin, that you were given the I.D.I.O.T. Award in 1995. Do you remember who did the preamble?
That was David Fear. And I’ve read some of your interviews, Deej, so I know what you’re about to ask! Unfortunately, I don’t remember what David said because I was just sitting there yakking away with my friends. You know how it is…

I do! There’s an excited babble in the room, and because it’s a surprise award, and no one imagines it’s going to be them, they’re not reallllly paying full attention until the preamble gets very specific.
Exactly. And in hindsight, there was really only one little clue ahead of time, because I had asked Mary Danby what she was wearing to the dinner… I told her I didn’t know whether I should just wear this or that – dress up a little – and she said, “Oh yes, I would wear that, definitely.” You know? Dress up a little!

Ha! That’s subtle! I like that Mary had your back! I hate having to keep saying this, Robin, but I’ll put a link in here to an interview with Mary Danby!
No problem! Anyway, I don’t know what David said because all I remember is that at one point I was sitting there watching and wondering who it was going to be. And he was doing something with the game, Guess Who?! Is it this? Is it this? Then I pretty much just heard my name… And when I did, I was SO embarrassed because – as you now know – I really do not like being in the limelight at all. I was so embarrassed, I wanted to just hide – and because I never suspected it, I don’t know what I said. I have no memory. None. It was just crazy.

Do you think you thanked somebody?
I don’t know. I was so shocked – I probably said very little. I probably said “Really?” I do remember sort of hiding down behind the podium and thinking, Oh, my lord! What am I going to say? And I wouldn’t have known who to thank – probably everybody in the industry! A big, long list because I just love the industry. I love all the people in it. I love their inventivity. I love the inventors… I love their personalities. I adore them. To this day, I would say all my friends are really interesting and accomplished; they’ve all done interesting things and most of them are quite creative sorts. I enjoy their creativity.

Shortly after winning the I.D.I.O.T., though, you moved on from Hasbro, which by then had bought by Waddingtons. Where did you go next?
In 1996, I went back to Canada for a short time to attend my mum’s funeral and regroup a little. Then, in 1997, I started my own little company, Robin Partners. There weren’t any partners, though, I just wanted to partner up with great people and utilise model makers and artists and game inventors. I assisted small-to-medium companies that didn’t have any product development expertise. And Robin Partners did pretty well, actually. Later, I did a lot of work – almost exclusively – for Richard Pain at Paul Lamond Games.

Ha!
You’re gong to link to him, aren’t you?!

Well, we just recently spoke with Richard Wells about Richard Pain’s I.D.I.O.T. Award. So yes, people can read that here.
Oh, Richard Wells! Yes… The Richards were fun. Richard Pain liked to have me on his stand at London Toy Fair, but I wasn’t going after being a big company – I sure didn’t want employees! In any case, from long before this, from about 1989, I had a partner, Tony Clegg – a Yorkshireman – with whom I wanted to spend more time. So I didn’t want an onerous job. Robin Partners kept me in the industry, and I got to see all the people I liked.

This just deepens the mystery, though, Robin, because there you are, award-winning inventor relations bod. You’re surrounded by fascinating, creative people. You love them all, you have wonderful friends! You start your own company to stay among them… Then you’re like Keyser Söze in The Usual Suspects: And like that… Fwaaar! You’re gone!
Ha! Well… One day, Tony just said to me, “Robin, do you still have to work?” And I said, “Well, I don’t HAVE to work, but it is what I do. It’s my identity.” He was having some health issues, though, so there was some talk around that and whether I should go back to writing because he knew I really loved it – and you can do that anywhere. But that kind of decision is difficult if what you do becomes SO much a part of who you are… You know? Because you have your whole identity in that role.

Yes. There comes a point where you find yourself asking, “If the thing I do is so much a part of my identity, then who am I when I stop doing the thing?”
Exactly. It’s so much a part of who I am… Exactly. That was exactly it.

Yes, I absolutely hear that.
Anyway, I didn’t go back to writing straight away because looking after Tony gave me a purpose. I loved him to bits… I’m not sure of the year I stopped in toys and games, but I just pulled up very quietly. I remained friends with some people. I still have the same email address from years ago… I didn’t see any reason to change that. But that was that. After Tony died in 2012, I had another crisis because I didn’t have an identity again. I had to start over – but I’m quite good at that.

And what keeps you busy now, Robin?
Well, as you know, Deej, I keep myself to myself, but I do some volunteer work here. I’m here at least once a day every day…

Worth mentioning that we’re meeting in the scorching sunshine in London’s Regent’s Park. What is it you do here?
Just after the pandemic, they were looking for volunteers for a newsletter they put out in the summer. It’s called Friends of Regents Park and Primrose Hill. The lady who edited it decided she was going to give it up. I saw the little advert they put out for it and wondered if I should do it… I put up my hand and I said I’d try for it. I wasn’t sure how interesting it was going to be, but when I got talking to some of the people that come here and work here, they were fascinating. I started getting into their lives and what they do – and they’re such interesting people.

And were you a shoo-in for that with your experience?!
No, not at all. I had to apply, and later they phoned me and said they’d like to interview me. I couldn’t believe it, actually. I was a bit unsure of it because, if you think about it, I’d had very few job interviews in my life; I’ve had one, I think.

Right. You’ve been in a network or self-employed your whole life.
Yes – so I wasn’t full of confidence as I imagined I’d be up against people that do interviews all the time. From what I gather, young people do interviews like eating Smarties, you know?

Ha! Eating Smarties! Ha! Yes, and every CV is completely bespoke for the role. It’s a blend of dark arts and real science!
Ha! Exactly. I haven’t even got a CV! So no, I didn’t have a lot of confidence about that process. But I do have the the ability to do the job, that’s for sure. So I was delighted when I got the job, and I work hard at it. I’m also on the committee for them here… It’s all voluntary, but I feel I’ve sort of found my niche – finally!

Well, the way I see it Robin you’ve found new niches over and over again… Doing something you love, then starting over with something else you love. And I’m really glad I managed to find you – thank you so much for taking part.

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